Time: Fri Jun 13 07:59:33 1997
	by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA18677;
	Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:53:53 -0700 (MST)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:52:47 -0700
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
From: Paul Andrew Mitchell [address in tool bar]
Subject: SLS: Speaking of smart cards... (fwd)

>On 13 Jun 97 at 8:49, barbara beier wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Rich Loether wrote:
>> > OK, you're looking at an announcement of a debit card.  So what?
>> No, an ATM card is a debit card.  What is different here is that a
>> third party, Visa, in this case, has been inserted as a middleman
>> between me and my bank.  
>Not if you use it at a local money machine.  Visa doesn't get 
>involved unless you use it as you would a credit card.
>> > These cards can be a major convenience and the records were
>> > being kept all along anyway.  You did know that all your checking
>> > account transactions were recorded, didn't you?
>> I knew that my bank keeps records of them and will sell them back to
>> me if I lose a statement.  Are you saying ordinary checking
>> transactions under the federal limits were recorded, before the days
>> of these third party intrusions, by anyone else?  
>No.  No need for that.  As long as your bank has been reading the
>account info from the strip at the bottom of the check the records
>have been online locally, and of course, for anyone 'authorized under
>law' to request them.  Banks, and other conputer users, keep backup
>copies for a long time too.  
>On the other hand, a FOAF once told me that there is an 
>underground economy working too.            ;-)
>> As for
>> convenience, I'm sure many people will see them that way; fine, as
>> long as their use doesn't become mandatory, either by regulation or,
>> more likely, by making use of cash such a hassle everybody will
>> "choose" to switch to smart cards.
>Again, a regular debit card is NOT a smart card.   There's no reason
>another generation of them couldn't be real 'smart cards' but we're
>not there yet.
>> > MasterCard offers debit cards too.  
>> I didn't know that.  Are they like this -- something your bank gives
>> you in lieu of an ATM card -- or do you have to apply for them?
>I've just heard the advertisements. I assume they're just like the
>ones with the VISA logo.
>>... It is true
>> that the other smart cards, the ones with health care information,
>> drives license stuff, etc., are of concern. 
>> What got the knee jerking here, however, was the term "world wide."
>> Debit cards usually work in local networks, like Cirrus, etc.  All
>> of a sudden my little savings bank and I are going global here? 
>Again, it depends on how you use the card.  Grab a quick $50 from your
>neighborhood ATM and it's between you and your bank.  Buy a souvenier
>from a vendor in Cairo with a VISA decal and you've gone worldwide. 
>In between is, well, in between.
>> > But this is NOT a "smart card".  
>> It's the data that's of concern, and how it's used, where it's
>> stored. ... I think a link may exist and if it
>> does, can be drawn.  What do you think?  
>There is definitely a potential for misuse, but you could say that
>about any technology.  Rather than dwell on the card, and the
>potential misuse of the data, I'd sooner concentrate on some of the
>more easily demonstrated abuses of GovCo.
>> And, Rich, thanks very much for the cool (as opposed to heated)
>> comments -- your perspsective is sorely needed.
>You're welcome.  I too get very tired of some of the tirades I read
>In Liberty,
>                 Guns save lives - maybe yours.
>Version: 2.6.2
>Rich Loether             Snail Mail: University of Pittsburgh
>EMail: rjl+@pitt.edu                 Computing & Info Services
>Voice: (412) 624-6429                600 Epsilon Drive
>FAX:   (412) 624-6436                Pittsburgh, PA 15238
>Without Prejudice, UCC 1-207
>finger for PGP 2.6.2 public key
>Key Fingerprint 53 76 0B 73 DF 5C D9 14  D0 C3 68 20 DE 4F 60 C0
>Unsub info - send e-mail to majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com, with
>"unsubscribe liberty-and-justice" in the body (not the subject)
>Liberty-and-Justice list-owner is Mike Goldman <whig@pobox.com>

Paul Andrew Mitchell                 : Counselor at Law, federal witness
B.A., Political Science, UCLA;  M.S., Public Administration, U.C. Irvine

tel:     (520) 320-1514: machine; fax: (520) 320-1256: 24-hour/day-night
email:   [address in tool bar]       : using Eudora Pro 3.0.2 on 586 CPU
website: http://www.supremelaw.com   : visit the Supreme Law Library now
ship to: c/o 2509 N. Campbell, #1776 : this is free speech,  at its best
             Tucson, Arizona state   : state zone,  not the federal zone
             Postal Zone 85719/tdc   : USPS delays first class  w/o this

As agents of the Most High, we came here to establish justice.  We shall
not leave, until our mission is accomplished and justice reigns eternal.
[This text formatted on-screen in Courier 11, non-proportional spacing.]


Return to Table of Contents for

Supreme Law School:   E-mail