Time: Fri Jun 13 07:59:33 1997 by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA18677; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:53:53 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:52:47 -0700 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: Paul Andrew Mitchell [address in tool bar] Subject: SLS: Speaking of smart cards... (fwd) <snip> > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >On 13 Jun 97 at 8:49, barbara beier wrote: > >> On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Rich Loether wrote: > >> > OK, you're looking at an announcement of a debit card. So what? > >> No, an ATM card is a debit card. What is different here is that a >> third party, Visa, in this case, has been inserted as a middleman >> between me and my bank. > >Not if you use it at a local money machine. Visa doesn't get >involved unless you use it as you would a credit card. > >> > These cards can be a major convenience and the records were >> > being kept all along anyway. You did know that all your checking >> > account transactions were recorded, didn't you? > >> I knew that my bank keeps records of them and will sell them back to >> me if I lose a statement. Are you saying ordinary checking >> transactions under the federal limits were recorded, before the days >> of these third party intrusions, by anyone else? > >No. No need for that. As long as your bank has been reading the >account info from the strip at the bottom of the check the records >have been online locally, and of course, for anyone 'authorized under >law' to request them. Banks, and other conputer users, keep backup >copies for a long time too. > >On the other hand, a FOAF once told me that there is an >underground economy working too. ;-) > >> As for >> convenience, I'm sure many people will see them that way; fine, as >> long as their use doesn't become mandatory, either by regulation or, >> more likely, by making use of cash such a hassle everybody will > >Yep. > >> "choose" to switch to smart cards. > >Again, a regular debit card is NOT a smart card. There's no reason >another generation of them couldn't be real 'smart cards' but we're >not there yet. > >> > MasterCard offers debit cards too. > >> I didn't know that. Are they like this -- something your bank gives >> you in lieu of an ATM card -- or do you have to apply for them? > >I've just heard the advertisements. I assume they're just like the >ones with the VISA logo. > >>... It is true >> that the other smart cards, the ones with health care information, >> drives license stuff, etc., are of concern. > >Yep. > >> What got the knee jerking here, however, was the term "world wide." >> Debit cards usually work in local networks, like Cirrus, etc. All >> of a sudden my little savings bank and I are going global here? > >Again, it depends on how you use the card. Grab a quick $50 from your >neighborhood ATM and it's between you and your bank. Buy a souvenier >from a vendor in Cairo with a VISA decal and you've gone worldwide. >In between is, well, in between. > >> > But this is NOT a "smart card". > >> It's the data that's of concern, and how it's used, where it's >> stored. ... I think a link may exist and if it >> does, can be drawn. What do you think? > >There is definitely a potential for misuse, but you could say that >about any technology. Rather than dwell on the card, and the >potential misuse of the data, I'd sooner concentrate on some of the >more easily demonstrated abuses of GovCo. > >> And, Rich, thanks very much for the cool (as opposed to heated) >> comments -- your perspsective is sorely needed. > >You're welcome. I too get very tired of some of the tirades I read >here. > >In Liberty, > >Rich > Guns save lives - maybe yours. >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: 2.6.2 > >iQCVAwUBM6FMecpq3DwfNsFtAQFDogP/Yw4Gbrz2DWSUqoBd608YDSuT5qs4dvPn >nG0ONKcziS9qLxjQwMBJZyWMbltP3Adbw6yk6xTxCFX2EI1g42JqyaBsJwbMF/y0 >8ZWELK58fz6tmGRE1cXmPPNxNK8PROPyA2bwR+olGAciGVJuu/VIbyO31L5m59I6 >I+JD5yd5imE= >=XvmL >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >-------------------- >Rich Loether Snail Mail: University of Pittsburgh >EMail: rjl+@pitt.edu Computing & Info Services >Voice: (412) 624-6429 600 Epsilon Drive >FAX: (412) 624-6436 Pittsburgh, PA 15238 >Without Prejudice, UCC 1-207 >finger for PGP 2.6.2 public key >Key Fingerprint 53 76 0B 73 DF 5C D9 14 D0 C3 68 20 DE 4F 60 C0 > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >Unsub info - send e-mail to majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com, with >"unsubscribe liberty-and-justice" in the body (not the subject) >Liberty-and-Justice list-owner is Mike Goldman <whig@pobox.com> > > ======================================================================== Paul Andrew Mitchell : Counselor at Law, federal witness B.A., Political Science, UCLA; M.S., Public Administration, U.C. Irvine tel: (520) 320-1514: machine; fax: (520) 320-1256: 24-hour/day-night email: [address in tool bar] : using Eudora Pro 3.0.2 on 586 CPU website: http://www.supremelaw.com : visit the Supreme Law Library now ship to: c/o 2509 N. Campbell, #1776 : this is free speech, at its best Tucson, Arizona state : state zone, not the federal zone Postal Zone 85719/tdc : USPS delays first class w/o this As agents of the Most High, we came here to establish justice. We shall not leave, until our mission is accomplished and justice reigns eternal. ======================================================================== [This text formatted on-screen in Courier 11, non-proportional spacing.]
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