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Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 11:51:54 -0700
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From: Paul Andrew Mitchell [address in tool bar]
Subject: IP: Who is Ronn Jackson? [1 of 2]
<snip>
>
>Subject: Who is Ronn Jackson? [1 of 2]
>
> Unofficial Transcript of Telephone Conversation
> between Ronald L. Jackson and John E. Trumane
> Monday, March 21, 1994, 1:00 to 1:30 p.m. PST
>
>
>Pacific Bell: Good afternoon. At the tone, Pacific Standard
>Time will be 12:51 and 50 seconds. ... Good afternoon. At the
>tone, Pacific Standard Time will be 12:53 and ....
>
>JET: ... turn my recorder on. So, we're now recording a
>conversation between Ronald L. Jackson and John E. Trumane at
>1:00 p.m. on the 21st of March, 1994, and Ronn, would you please
>repeat the permission you gave me. We're asking you for
>permission to record this conversation.
>
>RLJ: Yes, you do have my permission, and you're free to quote
>anything that I say.
>
>JET: Thank you very much. Well, good ahead, Ronn, and just tell
>us your story. We're very interested, in particular, to hear the
>details about this decision by Judge Hagen.
>
>RLJ: Ok. Ah. This morning I had some people ... there were
>three people who came to visit me, and they had gone to the court
>and the court has told them that Judge Hagen did not issue a
>decision. Also, they have contacted San Francisco where they
>said the 9th Circuit Court did not issue a restraining order or a
>gag order on me. And I do have copies of those. My actual
>purpose for calling you today, number one, was to see if you have
>received your copy.
>
>JET: No, I have not, as of yet.
>
>RLJ: Last Tuesday morning, I mailed 21 copies of a 5-page
>restraining order and 1 copy of the minutes of the court to you.
>Ah, now, I also received your letter Friday requesting an
>affidavit, of which I have made out and signed under the penalty
>of perjury and it's also on your way.
>
>JET: Well, thank you very much.
>
>RLJ: Ok. Now, I have determined that no one within the 21
>people that I have called ... now you are the 14th person that I
>have called today. No one has received any mail from me,
>including my wife Alice, for the last 7 days.
>
>JET: When did you mail these copies?
>
>RLJ: Tuesday morning.
>
>JET: Last Tuesday morning ... mailed ... Tuesday ... morning.
>
>RLJ: They would have gone out of here at the latest on
>Wednesday.
>
>JET: Tuesday morning. And no one has received any of those
>copies.
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 1 of 17
>
>
>RLJ: No one has received any mail from me of any kind from ...
>ah ... this institution since last ... ah ... the last piece of
>mail that was received was from ... ah ... a week ago today.
>
>JET: Do you have reason to believe that your mail is being
>censored and withheld?
>
>RLJ: Not at this time.
>
>JET: OK.
>
>RLJ: However ... ah ... within ... if these copies do not go to
>whom I sent them to ...
>
>JET: Mmm Hmm.
>
>RLJ: Ah ... if they're not in their possession within two more
>days, why then I will have reason to.
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>RLJ: However they have not in the past ... ah ... to my
>knowledge, censored or withheld any of my mail.
>
>JET: I see. Well, that's good news. Given the extraordinary
>import of these papers, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody is
>stopping your mail. Although, we would have a remedy to litigate
>that. But, that's getting ahead of ourselves a little bit here.
>
>RLJ: Well, you know we also have a remedy where I can file a
>complaint with the postal people. However ... ah ... whenever
>they get involved with government or a State agency ... ah ...
>huh ... they're a little reluctant to pursue it.
>
>JET: Ya. Ronn, I went down to the 9th Circuit myself and
>attempted to confirm the existence of an appeal, and the counter
>clerk there, after spending what seemed like an exorbitant amount
>of time, typing away on her keyboard, finally said, "Well, I did
>get a call about that yesterday and, no, there is no case. No,
>there is no gag order." Thank you very much.
>
>RLJ: Ya.
>
>JET: So, that's what the clerk at the counter of the 9th Circuit
>Court of Appeals said. So, at that point, we didn't have
>anything else to talk about. So, I left.
>
>RLJ: Ya. Ok.
>
>JET: But, you're confirming now that, that the TRO was issued by
>the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco?
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: Do you happen to know which judges signed that order?
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 2 of 17
>
>
>RLJ: Well, not really. There's 54 of them in the 9th Circuit
>and I got all of their names, trying to see if I could remember
>any of them. However, their names are listed on the original
>order, and as soon as I talk to the party who has that in his
>possession, I will get their names and I will relay that
>information to you.
>
>JET: Oh, thank you very much. It would have been a 3-judge
>panel, wouldn't it?
>
>RLJ: Yes. Yes.
>
>JET: Ok. So, we'll be getting that forthwith, then, within a
>week or so, do you think?
>
>RLJ: Probably, I should be able to know this evening ... ah ...
>who they are and ... ah ... This is just a guess on my part, but
>I think one of their names was Stewart.
>
>JET: Stewart?
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: S-T-E-W-A-R-T?
>
>RLJ: Ya.
>
>JET: Now, you mentioned a temporary restraining order?
>
>RLJ: Yes, it's ... what it is ... it's a ... uh ... uh ... the
>order was issued ... ah ... directing ... the order was worded
>so that it included the court in Reno and ... uh ... it was
>followed by the case number. And, it was also issued to me. I
>mean, it was a joint order against the Court and myself.
>
>JET: We have reports that that order has now been expanded.
>Have you heard that?
>
>RLJ: Well, I've heard it, but I have no confirmation of it.
>
>JET: Ok. They wouldn't have served you with that anyway.
>
>RLJ: No, but ... uh ... I understand that ... uh ... they had
>to obtain their information from someone and the only someone
>that it could be would be me ...
>
>JET: Right, uh huh.
>
>RLJ: because I am the person who contacts and talks with these
>people, so ...
>
>JET: Ya.
>
>RLJ: uh ... I have no idea, and to my knowledge, it does not
>exist, if it has been extended.
>
>JET: I see. Now, the declaratory judgment, was it? The ... uh
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 3 of 17
>
>
>... document you've made 21 copies of?
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: Is ...
>
>RLJ: No, no. No, no. I made a copy, 21 copies, of the ... the
>order from the court, which was made by the judge, by Judge
>Hagen. And I made ... uh .. 21 copies. I didn't make 'em;
>someone else did ... of the restraining and gag order from the
>9th Circuit ... so ...
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>RLJ: you've got documents that are ... uh ... certainly real as
>far as I know because I was served one by a Marshall and I was
>... uh ... the other came in the mail.
>
>JET: Right.
>
>RLJ: In fact, it came after the service on the gag order.
>
>JET: Oh, it did?
>
>RLJ: Ya, the day after.
>
>JET: No kidding.
>
>RLJ: Ya.
>
>JET: So, you made reference to a 5-page document. Is that Judge
>Hagen's declaratory judgement?
>
>RLJ: No, Judge Hagen's ... uh ... declaratory judgment was on
>one page.
>
>JET: Oh, that was only one page.
>
>RLJ: Yes, it was, it was ... uh ... minutes from ... uh ... uh
>... a hearing in chambers. No attorneys were present.
>
>JET: Minutes of hearing in chambers?
>
>RLJ: Yes. Now,
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>RLJ: There have been two or three of those issued and ... and
>there were all one-page decisions.
>
>JET: And that was a one-page decision.
>
>RLJ: Yes, it was, and they have made those four points.
>
>JET: Uh, huh.
>
>RLJ: I'll be happy to go over each point with you.
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 4 of 17
>
>
>JET: Well, I understand those points pretty well ... The whole
>world is on the edges of their seats trying to get confirmation
>of this decision. Now, do we wanna refer to Judge Hagen's
>decision as a Declaratory Judgment? Is that accurate?
>
>RLJ: Well, it's ... ah ... what I initiated the action under,
>was 28 U.S.C. 2201.
>
>JET: 2201. Declaratory Judgments Act.
>
>RLJ: Section ... no ... Section 206.
>
>JET: Section 206.
>
>RLJ: Yes, now, what that is, is, that is a violation of a
>contract, and I placed in the wording of the pleading that the
>United States government was in violation of contract, the
>Constitution.
>
>JET: Ok, would you please repeat that citation for us, for the
>record?
>
>RLJ: Ok, good, uh ... it's 28 USC 2201 ...
>
>JET: Right.
>
>RLJ: Section 206.
>
>JET: Subsection 206.
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: Ok, violation of contract.
>
>RLJ: Violation of contract, the Constitution. Uh ... that's
>what the Constitution is, as I read it. It's a Constitution.
>It's a contract from government, stating that they're going to
>perform, with the guidelines of the Constitution for me, as an
>individual, as a state Citizen.
>
>JET: Gotcha.
>
>RLJ: And ... uh ... they are in violation of that by making
>non-positive law, because ...
>
>JET: Uh, huh.
>
>RLJ: the non-positive law is not in conformity to the
>Constitution.
>
>JET: Very good. Now, the 5-page document you made reference to,
>that was the restraining order?
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: Ok, do you have ... uh ... any indication as to when that
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 5 of 17
>
>
>TRO would expire, because the "T" stands for "temporary", does it
>not?
>
>RLJ: Yes, I understand. But, now, see, there has been a ... as
>part of the order ... that, early in the month of April ... and
>I, I'm sorry ... but I can't keep that information ... I can't
>keep anything here. I send it out as soon as it comes in.
>
>JET: Uh, huh.
>
>RLJ: I read it, review it. I take the necessary action, and it
>goes in the mail.
>
>JET: Right.
>
>RLJ: In fact, your second letter that I sent to you, I had about
>ten minutes to make a two page letter and, I mean, I wrote fast
>and stuck it in the mail, because it was going out.
>
>JET: Ya!
>
>RLJ: You know, that day. So ...
>
>JET: Uh, hmm ...
>
>RLJ: I wanted to ...
>
>JET: Thank you.
>
>RLJ: I wanted to make sure that it, you know, left. So, ah ...
>
>JET: Thank you very much.
>
>RLJ: Well, ah, hey, anybody that I can help, or anybody that is
>in agreement with what I think ... uh ... and my thinking is
>based on facts, and I believe every single one of 'em to be true
>and correct ... that I will assist or help in any way I can.
>
>JET: Now, I would like to take your deposition right now. This
>is a little bit unconventional, because we don't have witnesses.
>I do have a gentleman here who's witnessing the production of
>this tape.
>
>RLJ: Yep.
>
>JET: Uh, I would like it very much if you would ... uh ...
>certify under penalty of perjury, under the laws of the United
>States of America, that Judge Hagen did issue a decision, and
>what the points were in that decision.
>
>RLJ: Ok, I do so certify under the penalty of perjury of the
>laws of the United States of America, that a decision was issued
>on case number CV-N-93-401-DWH that: Point number one: the 16th
>amendment to the constitution was, and is, invalid. Point number
>two: that the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, as originally written
>as non-positive law, is only applicable to citizens of the
>federal United States, and any implication or inference of its
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 6 of 17
>
>
>applicability to state Citizens has no basis in fact or law.
>Point number three: the Gold Reserve Act of 1934 to be
>fraudulent on its face, and to be unconstitutional. Point number
>four: Title 26, USC, as it was originally written, to be
>applicable only to the federal United States, and any inference
>to have no basis in fact or law. That order was issued on 3/4/94
>by Judge David Hagen.
>
>JET: 3-4-94.
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: Ok, we could end your certification at this point.
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: Oh, that's terrific! Thank you very much for your
>willingness and ... and truthfulness about telling us that. I'm
>sure ...
>
>RLJ: You have one in writing on its way to you also.
>
>JET: Ya, that's great, and we're hoping, of course, that the
>Post Office is delivering that, through its normal channels, and
>we'll be looking forward to that, of course. But, the fact that
>you have certified this statement under penalty of perjury, and
>then backed it up with the documentation as well, will make a
>very big difference. Down the road a piece, I'm sure we're going
>to produce a transcript of this conversation, and send it back to
>you, for your authorization. That would be the standard
>procedure. Do you anticipate any trouble getting that document
>into you and then back out of the prison?
>
>RLJ: If it comes from an attorney, and on the outside of the
>envelope addressed ... uh ... and noted in the lower left-hand
>corner, that it's privileged legal communication, and the return
>address shows as an attorney, why then it'll come in as legal
>mail.
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>RLJ: And ... uh ... it has to be opened in my presence. So, in
>fact, your last letter, even though it didn't have a return
>address, which is in violation of the prison policy ... uh ... it
>was marked "legal mail" and they did ... uh ... call me down and
>they opened it in my presence.
>
>JET: Let me reiterate those requirements. Ummm ... the lower
>left-hand corner of the envelope would have to read "privileged
>legal mail" ...
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: ... and the return address would have to be an attorney.
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 7 of 17
>
>
>JET: Ok. Would Paul Young be sufficient?
>
>RLJ: Absolutely.
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>RLJ: Absolutely.
>
>JET: Is he your attorney of record?
>
>RLJ: No. No. Paul is just a person that ... uh ... I am
>cooperating with and ... uh ... you know, I talk with him because
>of his affiliation with Al Carter.
>
>JET: Uh, huh.
>
>RLJ: You know, I, other than ... uh ... him ... uh ...
>forwarding mail ... they cut off my mail to my wife, and so, I
>have to make up an envelope. Of course, they're listening and
>they already know I'm doing it.
>
>JET: Umm, hmm.
>
>RLJ: I have to make a envelope addressed to her ...
>
>JET: Uh, huh.
>
>RLJ: ... and then I stick it in an envelope addressed to you.
>
>JET: I see.
>
>RLJ: Normally, as a rule, they do not ... uh ... censor the
>outgoing mail.
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>RLJ: So, but they did cut me off to her. She ... uh ... she has
>a copy of everything I've ever done and every received and ... uh
>... uh ... I am reluctant to have anybody go there when she's by
>herself, only ... it's just a matter of ... uh ... sometimes I
>don't know who I'm talking to.
>
>JET: Yes, I understand.
>
>RLJ: I did enjoy your book.
>
>JET: Oh, thank you very much. The Federal Zone.
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: Good. I'm glad you have a copy. Would you like another
>copy?
>
>RLJ: [laughs] It has to come as in "legal mail". However ...
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 8 of 17
>
>
> [end of part 1 of 2]
========================================================================
Paul Andrew Mitchell : Counselor at Law, federal witness
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