Time: Sat Aug 09 11:54:20 1997 by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA08672 for [address in tool bar]; Sat, 9 Aug 1997 11:54:44 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: liberty-and-justice-outgoing@majordomo.pobox.com Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 11:51:54 -0700 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: Paul Andrew Mitchell [address in tool bar] Subject: L&J: Who is Ronn Jackson? [1 of 2] <snip> > >Subject: Who is Ronn Jackson? [1 of 2] > > Unofficial Transcript of Telephone Conversation > between Ronald L. Jackson and John E. Trumane > Monday, March 21, 1994, 1:00 to 1:30 p.m. PST > > >Pacific Bell: Good afternoon. At the tone, Pacific Standard >Time will be 12:51 and 50 seconds. ... Good afternoon. At the >tone, Pacific Standard Time will be 12:53 and .... > >JET: ... turn my recorder on. So, we're now recording a >conversation between Ronald L. Jackson and John E. Trumane at >1:00 p.m. on the 21st of March, 1994, and Ronn, would you please >repeat the permission you gave me. We're asking you for >permission to record this conversation. > >RLJ: Yes, you do have my permission, and you're free to quote >anything that I say. > >JET: Thank you very much. Well, good ahead, Ronn, and just tell >us your story. We're very interested, in particular, to hear the >details about this decision by Judge Hagen. > >RLJ: Ok. Ah. This morning I had some people ... there were >three people who came to visit me, and they had gone to the court >and the court has told them that Judge Hagen did not issue a >decision. Also, they have contacted San Francisco where they >said the 9th Circuit Court did not issue a restraining order or a >gag order on me. And I do have copies of those. My actual >purpose for calling you today, number one, was to see if you have >received your copy. > >JET: No, I have not, as of yet. > >RLJ: Last Tuesday morning, I mailed 21 copies of a 5-page >restraining order and 1 copy of the minutes of the court to you. >Ah, now, I also received your letter Friday requesting an >affidavit, of which I have made out and signed under the penalty >of perjury and it's also on your way. > >JET: Well, thank you very much. > >RLJ: Ok. Now, I have determined that no one within the 21 >people that I have called ... now you are the 14th person that I >have called today. No one has received any mail from me, >including my wife Alice, for the last 7 days. > >JET: When did you mail these copies? > >RLJ: Tuesday morning. > >JET: Last Tuesday morning ... mailed ... Tuesday ... morning. > >RLJ: They would have gone out of here at the latest on >Wednesday. > >JET: Tuesday morning. And no one has received any of those >copies. > > > Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 1 of 17 > > >RLJ: No one has received any mail from me of any kind from ... >ah ... this institution since last ... ah ... the last piece of >mail that was received was from ... ah ... a week ago today. > >JET: Do you have reason to believe that your mail is being >censored and withheld? > >RLJ: Not at this time. > >JET: OK. > >RLJ: However ... ah ... within ... if these copies do not go to >whom I sent them to ... > >JET: Mmm Hmm. > >RLJ: Ah ... if they're not in their possession within two more >days, why then I will have reason to. > >JET: Ok. > >RLJ: However they have not in the past ... ah ... to my >knowledge, censored or withheld any of my mail. > >JET: I see. Well, that's good news. Given the extraordinary >import of these papers, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody is >stopping your mail. Although, we would have a remedy to litigate >that. But, that's getting ahead of ourselves a little bit here. > >RLJ: Well, you know we also have a remedy where I can file a >complaint with the postal people. However ... ah ... whenever >they get involved with government or a State agency ... ah ... >huh ... they're a little reluctant to pursue it. > >JET: Ya. Ronn, I went down to the 9th Circuit myself and >attempted to confirm the existence of an appeal, and the counter >clerk there, after spending what seemed like an exorbitant amount >of time, typing away on her keyboard, finally said, "Well, I did >get a call about that yesterday and, no, there is no case. No, >there is no gag order." Thank you very much. > >RLJ: Ya. > >JET: So, that's what the clerk at the counter of the 9th Circuit >Court of Appeals said. So, at that point, we didn't have >anything else to talk about. So, I left. > >RLJ: Ya. Ok. > >JET: But, you're confirming now that, that the TRO was issued by >the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco? > >RLJ: Yes. > >JET: Do you happen to know which judges signed that order? > > > Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 2 of 17 > > >RLJ: Well, not really. There's 54 of them in the 9th Circuit >and I got all of their names, trying to see if I could remember >any of them. However, their names are listed on the original >order, and as soon as I talk to the party who has that in his >possession, I will get their names and I will relay that >information to you. > >JET: Oh, thank you very much. It would have been a 3-judge >panel, wouldn't it? > >RLJ: Yes. Yes. > >JET: Ok. So, we'll be getting that forthwith, then, within a >week or so, do you think? > >RLJ: Probably, I should be able to know this evening ... ah ... >who they are and ... ah ... This is just a guess on my part, but >I think one of their names was Stewart. > >JET: Stewart? > >RLJ: Yes. > >JET: S-T-E-W-A-R-T? > >RLJ: Ya. > >JET: Now, you mentioned a temporary restraining order? > >RLJ: Yes, it's ... what it is ... it's a ... uh ... uh ... the >order was issued ... ah ... directing ... the order was worded >so that it included the court in Reno and ... uh ... it was >followed by the case number. And, it was also issued to me. I >mean, it was a joint order against the Court and myself. > >JET: We have reports that that order has now been expanded. >Have you heard that? > >RLJ: Well, I've heard it, but I have no confirmation of it. > >JET: Ok. They wouldn't have served you with that anyway. > >RLJ: No, but ... uh ... I understand that ... uh ... they had >to obtain their information from someone and the only someone >that it could be would be me ... > >JET: Right, uh huh. > >RLJ: because I am the person who contacts and talks with these >people, so ... > >JET: Ya. > >RLJ: uh ... I have no idea, and to my knowledge, it does not >exist, if it has been extended. > >JET: I see. Now, the declaratory judgment, was it? The ... uh > > > Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 3 of 17 > > >... document you've made 21 copies of? > >RLJ: Yes. > >JET: Is ... > >RLJ: No, no. No, no. I made a copy, 21 copies, of the ... the >order from the court, which was made by the judge, by Judge >Hagen. And I made ... uh .. 21 copies. I didn't make 'em; >someone else did ... of the restraining and gag order from the >9th Circuit ... so ... > >JET: Ok. > >RLJ: you've got documents that are ... uh ... certainly real as >far as I know because I was served one by a Marshall and I was >... uh ... the other came in the mail. > >JET: Right. > >RLJ: In fact, it came after the service on the gag order. > >JET: Oh, it did? > >RLJ: Ya, the day after. > >JET: No kidding. > >RLJ: Ya. > >JET: So, you made reference to a 5-page document. Is that Judge >Hagen's declaratory judgement? > >RLJ: No, Judge Hagen's ... uh ... declaratory judgment was on >one page. > >JET: Oh, that was only one page. > >RLJ: Yes, it was, it was ... uh ... minutes from ... uh ... uh >... a hearing in chambers. No attorneys were present. > >JET: Minutes of hearing in chambers? > >RLJ: Yes. Now, > >JET: Ok. > >RLJ: There have been two or three of those issued and ... and >there were all one-page decisions. > >JET: And that was a one-page decision. > >RLJ: Yes, it was, and they have made those four points. > >JET: Uh, huh. > >RLJ: I'll be happy to go over each point with you. > > > Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 4 of 17 > > >JET: Well, I understand those points pretty well ... The whole >world is on the edges of their seats trying to get confirmation >of this decision. Now, do we wanna refer to Judge Hagen's >decision as a Declaratory Judgment? Is that accurate? > >RLJ: Well, it's ... ah ... what I initiated the action under, >was 28 U.S.C. 2201. > >JET: 2201. Declaratory Judgments Act. > >RLJ: Section ... no ... Section 206. > >JET: Section 206. > >RLJ: Yes, now, what that is, is, that is a violation of a >contract, and I placed in the wording of the pleading that the >United States government was in violation of contract, the >Constitution. > >JET: Ok, would you please repeat that citation for us, for the >record? > >RLJ: Ok, good, uh ... it's 28 USC 2201 ... > >JET: Right. > >RLJ: Section 206. > >JET: Subsection 206. > >RLJ: Yes. > >JET: Ok, violation of contract. > >RLJ: Violation of contract, the Constitution. Uh ... that's >what the Constitution is, as I read it. It's a Constitution. >It's a contract from government, stating that they're going to >perform, with the guidelines of the Constitution for me, as an >individual, as a state Citizen. > >JET: Gotcha. > >RLJ: And ... uh ... they are in violation of that by making >non-positive law, because ... > >JET: Uh, huh. > >RLJ: the non-positive law is not in conformity to the >Constitution. > >JET: Very good. Now, the 5-page document you made reference to, >that was the restraining order? > >RLJ: Yes. > >JET: Ok, do you have ... uh ... any indication as to when that > > > Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 5 of 17 > > >TRO would expire, because the "T" stands for "temporary", does it >not? > >RLJ: Yes, I understand. But, now, see, there has been a ... as >part of the order ... that, early in the month of April ... and >I, I'm sorry ... but I can't keep that information ... I can't >keep anything here. I send it out as soon as it comes in. > >JET: Uh, huh. > >RLJ: I read it, review it. I take the necessary action, and it >goes in the mail. > >JET: Right. > >RLJ: In fact, your second letter that I sent to you, I had about >ten minutes to make a two page letter and, I mean, I wrote fast >and stuck it in the mail, because it was going out. > >JET: Ya! > >RLJ: You know, that day. So ... > >JET: Uh, hmm ... > >RLJ: I wanted to ... > >JET: Thank you. > >RLJ: I wanted to make sure that it, you know, left. So, ah ... > >JET: Thank you very much. > >RLJ: Well, ah, hey, anybody that I can help, or anybody that is >in agreement with what I think ... uh ... and my thinking is >based on facts, and I believe every single one of 'em to be true >and correct ... that I will assist or help in any way I can. > >JET: Now, I would like to take your deposition right now. This >is a little bit unconventional, because we don't have witnesses. >I do have a gentleman here who's witnessing the production of >this tape. > >RLJ: Yep. > >JET: Uh, I would like it very much if you would ... uh ... >certify under penalty of perjury, under the laws of the United >States of America, that Judge Hagen did issue a decision, and >what the points were in that decision. > >RLJ: Ok, I do so certify under the penalty of perjury of the >laws of the United States of America, that a decision was issued >on case number CV-N-93-401-DWH that: Point number one: the 16th >amendment to the constitution was, and is, invalid. Point number >two: that the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, as originally written >as non-positive law, is only applicable to citizens of the >federal United States, and any implication or inference of its > > > Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 6 of 17 > > >applicability to state Citizens has no basis in fact or law. >Point number three: the Gold Reserve Act of 1934 to be >fraudulent on its face, and to be unconstitutional. Point number >four: Title 26, USC, as it was originally written, to be >applicable only to the federal United States, and any inference >to have no basis in fact or law. That order was issued on 3/4/94 >by Judge David Hagen. > >JET: 3-4-94. > >RLJ: Yes. > >JET: Ok, we could end your certification at this point. > >RLJ: Yes. > >JET: Oh, that's terrific! Thank you very much for your >willingness and ... and truthfulness about telling us that. I'm >sure ... > >RLJ: You have one in writing on its way to you also. > >JET: Ya, that's great, and we're hoping, of course, that the >Post Office is delivering that, through its normal channels, and >we'll be looking forward to that, of course. But, the fact that >you have certified this statement under penalty of perjury, and >then backed it up with the documentation as well, will make a >very big difference. Down the road a piece, I'm sure we're going >to produce a transcript of this conversation, and send it back to >you, for your authorization. That would be the standard >procedure. Do you anticipate any trouble getting that document >into you and then back out of the prison? > >RLJ: If it comes from an attorney, and on the outside of the >envelope addressed ... uh ... and noted in the lower left-hand >corner, that it's privileged legal communication, and the return >address shows as an attorney, why then it'll come in as legal >mail. > >JET: Ok. > >RLJ: And ... uh ... it has to be opened in my presence. So, in >fact, your last letter, even though it didn't have a return >address, which is in violation of the prison policy ... uh ... it >was marked "legal mail" and they did ... uh ... call me down and >they opened it in my presence. > >JET: Let me reiterate those requirements. Ummm ... the lower >left-hand corner of the envelope would have to read "privileged >legal mail" ... > >RLJ: Yes. > >JET: ... and the return address would have to be an attorney. > >RLJ: Yes. > > > Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 7 of 17 > > >JET: Ok. Would Paul Young be sufficient? > >RLJ: Absolutely. > >JET: Ok. > >RLJ: Absolutely. > >JET: Is he your attorney of record? > >RLJ: No. No. Paul is just a person that ... uh ... I am >cooperating with and ... uh ... you know, I talk with him because >of his affiliation with Al Carter. > >JET: Uh, huh. > >RLJ: You know, I, other than ... uh ... him ... uh ... >forwarding mail ... they cut off my mail to my wife, and so, I >have to make up an envelope. Of course, they're listening and >they already know I'm doing it. > >JET: Umm, hmm. > >RLJ: I have to make a envelope addressed to her ... > >JET: Uh, huh. > >RLJ: ... and then I stick it in an envelope addressed to you. > >JET: I see. > >RLJ: Normally, as a rule, they do not ... uh ... censor the >outgoing mail. > >JET: Ok. > >RLJ: So, but they did cut me off to her. She ... uh ... she has >a copy of everything I've ever done and every received and ... uh >... uh ... I am reluctant to have anybody go there when she's by >herself, only ... it's just a matter of ... uh ... sometimes I >don't know who I'm talking to. > >JET: Yes, I understand. > >RLJ: I did enjoy your book. > >JET: Oh, thank you very much. The Federal Zone. > >RLJ: Yes. > >JET: Good. I'm glad you have a copy. Would you like another >copy? > >RLJ: [laughs] It has to come as in "legal mail". However ... > >JET: Ok. > > > Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 8 of 17 > > > [end of part 1 of 2] ======================================================================== Paul Andrew Mitchell : Counselor at Law, federal witness B.A., Political Science, UCLA; M.S., Public Administration, U.C. Irvine tel: (520) 320-1514: machine; fax: (520) 320-1256: 24-hour/day-night email: [address in tool bar] : using Eudora Pro 3.0.3 on 586 CPU website: http://www.supremelaw.com : visit the Supreme Law Library now ship to: c/o 2509 N. Campbell, #1776 : this is free speech, at its best Tucson, Arizona state : state zone, not the federal zone Postal Zone 85719/tdc : USPS delays first class w/o this As agents of the Most High, we came here to establish justice. We shall not leave, until our mission is accomplished and justice reigns eternal. ======================================================================== [This text formatted on-screen in Courier 11, non-proportional spacing.] =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Unsub info - send e-mail to majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com, with "unsubscribe liberty-and-justice" in the body (not the subject) Liberty-and-Justice list-owner is Mike Goldman <whig@pobox.com>
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