Time: Sat Aug 09 11:56:55 1997
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Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 11:53:48 -0700
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From: Paul Andrew Mitchell [address in tool bar]
Subject: L&J: Who is Ronn Jackson? [2 of 2]
<snip>
>
>Subject: Who is Ronn Jackson? [2 of 2]
>
>[continued from part 1 of 2]
>
>
>RLJ: Uh. I did ... uh ... I read your book in one night and ...uh ...
>
>JET: In one night!
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: You're a fast reader.
>
>RLJ: Well ... uh ... at night when we're locked down here, I
>have from 10:30 until 7 o'clock the following morning and ... uh
>... that's my most productive time.
>
>JET: That's great. I want to take you back to ... uh ... one
>thought we didn't finish. As I recall from your amended
>affidavit number 4, you were pleading in pro se. Is that
>correct?
>
>RLJ: Ah ... I ... all my pleadings are in pro se.
>
>JET: Does that mean that you did not have an attorney of record?
>
>RLJ: I do not have an attorney of record for this case, because
>... uh ... the person that does my legal work is doing something
>else with the government and I don't want him involved in this
>...
>
>JET: I see.
>
>RLJ: Uh ... because the other, contrary to what you may think,
>is much more important to me at this time.
>
>JET: How are you making appearances before Hagen?
>
>RLJ: I am not. I have never been before Hagen.
>
>JET: I see.
>
>RLJ: Uh ... the only ... uh ... everything is done through the
>mail, and I have never met or seen Mr. Hagen.
>
>JET: So, you filed that case originally through the mail.
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: I see.
>
>RLJ: Mail only.
>
>JET: Now, tell me what's happening at the U.S. Supreme Court on
>this case, if anything.
>
>RLJ: Well, the only thing that I am aware of now is that David
>Souter is one of the Justices. He is known ... uh ... to my
>attorney ... uh ... who's not involved with this case, to have
>received a copy of the restraining order and of the minute order
>of the court. It's personally delivered to him a ... let's see
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 9 of 17
>
>
>... ah ... the order was issued on Wednesday [inaudible] and it
>was delivered to him on Friday, the following Friday.
>
>JET: Ok. And the minute order is the declaratory judgment?
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: Ok. Very good. I just wanna make sure we understand that
>clearly.
>
>RLJ: Ya.
>
>JET: So, this is Associate Justice David Souter of the U.S.
>Supreme Court, has received copies of the Temporary Restraining
>Order issued by the 9th Circuit ...
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: ... and the Declaratory Judgment, in the form of a minute
>order, by Judge Hagen.
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: When ... uh ... did he receive that? Do you have any idea?
>
>RLJ: It would be ... let's see ... the, the order was issued on
>Wednesday, which was on the 9th. He received it, I believe,
>either Thursday evening or Friday morning.
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>RLJ: That would be on the 10th or 11th. But I can't ... I
>don't know that to be .... One of those days, he did receive a
>copy of it.
>
>JET: It was served on him in his capacity as an Associate
>Justice of the United States Supreme Court?
>
>RLJ: No. No. It was given to him by an attorney who's a friend
>of his, who happens to be my attorney, as proof that they were
>issued, because this has created some controversy with the
>Supreme Court already.
>
>JET: Oh, of, of course. Now, you just made reference to "your
>attorney". I thought you said you had no attorney of record?
>
>RLJ: I do not have an attorney of record ...
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>RLJ: ... for case number CV-N-93-401-DWH.
>
>JET: I understand. Has there been any action by any Justice of
>the Supreme Court in this matter?
>
>RLJ: No.
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 10 of 17
>
>
>JET: Ok. To your knowledge, then, the 9th Circuit TRO stands?
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>RLJ: And, it will stand ... uh ... we didn't complete that ...
>uh ... I didn't complete that. I'm not sure, but ... uh ... I
>believe it's at the beginning of the second week of April that
>there has to be, or there will be some action taken at the 9th
>Circuit. Now, the ... as I understand how a temporary
>restraining order is ... that is issued ... works, if it goes for
>a period of approximately 30 days, and then there's a hearing for
>a permanent injunction. Is that correct?
>
>JET: I think so. Yes.
>
>RLJ: Ok. Well ... uh ... that ... it will take place, if I
>remember ... ah ... when I originally got the order and had the
>conversation over it, I remember looking on the calendar, and it
>seems like it was Monday or Tuesday in the second week of April.
>
>JET: Monday or Tuesday in second week of April. Ok.
>
>RLJ: Yes. So, I ... uh ... I can't swear by that, but it's
>somewhere in the second week of April, I'm sure.
>
>JET: Ronn, do you have a case number at the 9th Circuit?
>
>RLJ: No ... uh ... however, I will get that and obtain that
>tonight.
>
>JET: Oh, good!
>
>RLJ: There was one, and I'm so concerned about this order, and
>then I was concerned about me having the freedom to even say
>anything about it because I figured there would be some kind of
>retaliation taken, and if they throw me in the hole here, why
>then I'm incommunicado.
>
>JET: Sure, well how do you feel about this conversation, in
>light of the TRO? Do you feel like you're violating the TRO?
>
>RLJ: Oh, absolutely.
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>RLJ: Yes, I am absolutely, I'm violating it and I have violated
>it at least 30 other times with people all over this United
>States.
>
>JET: And you feel you have good cause for doing so?
>
>RLJ: Why?
>
>JET: Ok, what is that cause? Please mention that cause on the
>record here.
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 11 of 17
>
>
>RLJ: The government is illegal and unconstitutional, and they
>have a dual standard and ... uh ... I happen to believe that the
>supreme Law of the Land is the Constitution of the United States
>of America, and I will continue to fight a tyrannical government
>in any way that I can. And, under the circumstances that I am
>under right now, being incarcerated as a convicted felon, the
>only thing that I can do is, I can write and I can talk. And I
>will continue to do so until I cannot do it any more.
>
>JET: Ronn, would you agree that there is now an overriding
>public interest in lifting this gag order?
>
>RLJ: [laughs] Yes!
>
>JET: Ok. I knew you would say yes. I just wanted to make sure,
>to give you a chance to say "no". [laughs]
>
>RLJ: No. No. There is ... uh ... definitely an overriding ...
>I have interest from many people and ... uh ... I shall pursue
>this ... uh ... Government has one of two alternatives: either
>to admit that I am right, in all ways and in all stipulations, or
>they're gonna have to kill me.
>
>JET: Uh, huh. Well, let's hope that it doesn't come to that. I
>don't think it needs to.
>
>RLJ: I don't think it needs to, either. However ... uh ... I, I
>started something and I do not intend ... Now, one thing about
>this, Johnny, that you are not aware of, you don't of know my
>background and you don't know what's going on on the other side
>of government. They are related in the breech because ... uh ...
>some of my ... uh ... work ... uh ... in my affiliation with
>government ... I wanna be sure to word this correctly ... uh ...
>was, and can be ... uh ... construed as illegal. However, it was
>done under the direction and the assurances that it was in the
>interest of the country. It was when I started questioning some
>of the things that I did ... uh ... that the difficulty with the
>government started.
>
>JET: I understand.
>
>RLJ: And ... uh ... I don't mean to talk in circles. I can be
>much more specific ... uh ...
>
>JET: There's no point for you to be specific on this subject at
>the moment.
>
>RLJ: Ya. Ya. Alice has a copy of ... I've written 5 books.
>
>JET: Uh, huh.
>
>RLJ: Ok. Now, one of 'em ... they're all entitled The Death of
>Camelot, and they all start in September of ... uh ... '63. And
>... uh ... if that gives you an indication of what the very first
>subject matter would be.
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 12 of 17
>
>
>JET: Uh, huh.
>
>RLJ: Ok.
>
>JET: Yes.
>
>RLJ: And my direct personal involvement with that. So ... uh
>... the government has a right to be concerned about what I am
>saying.
>
>JET: Sure.
>
>RLJ: And ... uh ... I've, I've committed myself to doing
>something, and I'm going to carry through with it.
>
>JET: Ronn, I have another question for you. I hate to go back
>to the same material we've been discussing, but we're interested
>in knowing ... uh ... what you can tell us about the phone call
>you got from Judge Hagen and the Marshall who witnessed that. Do
>you have a name for that Marshall for us?
>
>RLJ: No, I don't.
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>RLJ: They, they have been here to see me ... uh ... for other
>matters, and ...
>
>JET: Uh, huh.
>
>RLJ: ... some other papers and ... uh ... I've seen this man, I
>think he was here once before on an unrelated matter.
>
>JET: You would recognize him if you saw him again?
>
>RLJ: Oh, absolutely.
>
>JET: Can you describe that man to us, just briefly?
>
>RLJ: Ah ... 5-10, 5-11. Brown hair. Ah ... 40.
>
>JET: Approximately 40 years old?
>
>RLJ: 40 ... 42 ... somewhere in that area. ... ah ...
>
>JET: He had credentials?
>
>RLJ: Ah ... when you come on here ... ah ... on this property,
>... ah ... the normal procedure is to call you to the
>administration area and ... ah ... they have already certified
>who he is.
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>RLJ: Now, whether or not the institution will say anything, I
>don't know.
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 13 of 17
>
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>RLJ: I am not real close to the administration. [laughs]
>
>JET: I understand. Now, could you tell us more about the phone
>call you got from Judge Hagen in the presence of that Marshall?
>Approximate time when that happened?
>
>RLJ: Sorry, but you've got those two items confused. What ...
>ok ... the Marshall that came here did not bring anything from
>Judge Hagen. He served the papers from the 9th Circuit Court of
>Appeals in San Francisco.
>
>JET: Oh, I misunderstood your letter then.
>
>RLJ: Yes. Ok. Well, look, I put that letter together in ten
>minutes.
>
>JET: Uh, huh. I understand. So, when you were speaking with
>Judge Hagen, was there anybody there to witness that
>conversation you were having with him?
>
>RLJ: I was just here in the day room.
>
>JET: I see. Can you tell us ... uh ... what he said to you,
>briefly summarizing points?
>
>RLJ: Well, let, let me start and give you a real quick capsule
>of what happended. First of all, the order was issued on the 4th
>of March. On the 7th of March, I received a local number to
>call, and, who told me about the order from Judge Hagen was an
>attorney in Reno who had received a call from one of his clerks,
>one of the clerks of the Court. And ...
>
>JET: Who was that, by the way?
>
>RLJ: I don't know. He refused to identify himself. However, he
>did identify himself to the institution, because they're the ones
>who told me.
>
>JET: Uh, huh.
>
>RLJ: But, he said ... uh ... "I'm an attorney," and he says,
>"I'm letting you know what happened last Friday." And I said,
>"Well, I haven't gotten, got the mail yet." And that's how I
>first heard about it. Then ... uh ... from Friday to Wednesday,
>the following Wednesday ...
>
>JET: What dates would those be, please?
>
>RLJ: Ok. Uh ... Wednesday was the 9th, was the day that the 9th
>Circuit Court issued the order.
>
>JET: Right.
>
>RLJ: However, it would had to have been done on the 8th, because
>I received, although it could have been faxed to me, but it was
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 14 of 17
>
>
>not a fax ... I received the order on the 9th. On the 10th, I
>received Judge Hagen's order.
>
>JET: In writing?
>
>RLJ: In writing.
>
>JET: Ok.
>
>RLJ: That was the minute order.
>
>JET: Right.
>
>RLJ: On the 10th. Now, those items went out ... uh ... they
>were given to someone else, and then they made 21 copies for me.
>Now, I sent one to my wife, and then I sent one to you. I sent
>one, you know, the other several key people around the United
>States.
>
>JET: Yes, I understand. I'd like to get you back to answering
>that one specific question.
>
>RLJ: Ok.
>
>JET: Now, can you relate to us the contents of the phone call,
>what was said in both directions, if possible?
>
>RLJ: Well, I can give you as much as, as I recall.
>
>JET: That's all we need.
>
>RLJ: Ok, the phone call ... uh ... was from the 9th Circuit, and
>that was the 3-judge panel who said ... uh ... that they had
>issued this order, and that it was issued to me, and to the
>Court, or to the Court first.
>
>JET: Oh, I'm misunderstanding. Did Judge Hagen, then, not call
>you?
>
>RLJ: No!
>
>JET: Oh, I understand.
>
>RLJ: No, no.
>
>JET: My mistake. I'm making this mistake here, and you've
>finally cleared that up for me.
>
>RLJ: Ok. Well, I didn't think that I had told you that I had
>spoke to Hagen. I've never seen him, spoken to him, other than
>on an unrelated matter.
>
>JET: Ok, I'm glad we've cleared that up. So, then the one phone
>call we're concerned about, then, was the phone call from the 9th
>Circuit 3-judge panel.
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 15 of 17
>
>
>JET: Ok. Good.
>
>RLJ: Yes.
>
>JET: Well, I think I've covered just about everything I need for
>now. We've got a half an hour's worth of conversation here we're
>gonna have to transcribe, and the longer this conversation
>continues, the more expensive that transcript's going to be. So,
>if you don't mind, I'd like to terminate this conversation for
>now, so that we can get to work on preparing a professional
>version of this crans ... excuse me ... this transcript, and
>getting it to you as soon as possible.
>
>RLJ: Ok. Well, and any time you have any questions ... ah ...
>or you want me to elaborate on any point ... ah ... the nice
>thing about this is that ... ah ... there is not one word of
>dishonesty [inaudible] so you don't have to worry about me, not
>to be exact as I can be, and ... ah ... I'll sign it.
>
>JET: Well, Mr. Jackson, I want to thank you very much for your
>commitment to constitutional law and to restoring the public,
>excuse me, the republic [laughs]. That was an interesting slip,
>huh? And, we'll be back in touch with you as soon as physically
>possible.
>
>RLJ: Ok, and if you need for me to call back, just call my wife.
>You have her number.
>
>JET: Very good. Thank you very much.
>
>RLJ: I thank you.
>
>JET: Have a nice day, sir.
>
>RLJ: You too.
>
>JET: Bye, bye.
>
>JET: Ok, we're terminating that conversation, and right now, the
>time is 1:30 p.m. on Monday, the 21st of March, 1994. This is
>the end of the tape.
>
> [end of transcript]
>
>
>This transcript was prepared by John E. Trumane within 24 hours
>after the conversation was recorded on magnetic tape.
>
>I certify under penalty of perjury, under the laws of the United
>States of America, without the "United States", that I prepared
>the above transcript and that it is faithful, true and correct,
>to the best of my knowledge and ability.
>
>
>Executed _________________
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 16 of 17
>
>
>_____________________________________
>John E. Trumane, Sui Juris
>
>
> Trumane Interview of Ronald L. Jackson: page 17 of 17
>
>
> # # #
>
>
> [end of part 2 of 2]
========================================================================
Paul Andrew Mitchell : Counselor at Law, federal witness
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