Time: Wed Oct 15 10:06:40 1997
	by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15755;
	Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:07:05 -0700 (MST)
	by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA06635;
	Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:01:07 -0700 (MST)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:00:16 -0700
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
From: Paul Andrew Mitchell [address in tool bar]
Subject: SLS: Militias Create Big Hurdle for National ID Plan (fwd)

>John W McPherson wrote:
>> ->  SearchNet's   SNETNEWS   Mailing List
>> I have a few simple questions;
>> If the MSO exists for a vehicle purchased outright, who would get
>> possesion of it if not  the buyer?
>> What about situations where a vehicle is financed?
>> Where would one find the holder of the MSO?
>> What is the specific procedure of request ( I was tired when I read the
>> initial post, and I should know better, yes)
>> How old of a vehicle does the MSO exist (when were MSO's introduced)?
>> If the "holder denies the existence of an MSO, does that invalidate one
>> that may be in existence?
>> Can someone merely apply for the MSO for their vehicle?
>> If so to what entity?
>> I will go back and re-read the initial post, but it was not clear.  Not
>> being fully versed in legallese, sometimes such things within such a post
>> are not clear at all.  I know, because I have written my share of
>> straight forward, yet confusing posts myself.
>> -> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
>> ->  Posted by: goshawk3@juno.com (John W McPherson)
>In January of 1992, I went to the local Mitsubishi dealer (also, at the
>     time, was the Toyoto dealer) and asked the agent handling my pro-
>     posed purchase if I bought a truck, could I get the MSO with it.
>     He replied that there would be 'no problem' and I paid him cash
>     for the truck (bank cashier's checks), and he told me to pick up
>     the truck the following day.  When I went to pick up my truck, the
>     agent asked me for a drivers license (which I didn't have, as I
>     had sent it back to the state several years earlier), and I told 
>     him I did not have a license, that I was there to pick up MY truck
>     and not answer a book of bullshit with him.  He then asked for my
>     Social Security number, and I replied that I didn't have a SS #
>     either.  He told me to wait until he checked with his boss, and, 
>     upon return, informed me that I could not get MY truck unless I 
>     gave him these numbers.  To make a long story shorter, I dropped
>     a lawsuit on him and the company, which lasted three years.  I 
>     finally got my money returned, plus a thousand dollars, but I had
>     his lawyer in court about ten times, so it must have cost him a
>     fortune just for the attorney.  
>The first hearing told me all I wanted to know about the situation.  I
>     had subpoenaed the top lawyer for the state Department of Safety,
>     who informed the court that neither drivers license nor SS numbers
>     were required to purchase a vehicle in the state of Louisiana.
>     Why then did the case draw out for another two and one half years?
>     Partially because I called the owner of the car lot stupid to begin
>     with, but the main reason was the MSO.
>The MSO is sent to the state in every instance when the vehicle is to be
>     used within the state.  This, in effect, makes the state the owner
>     of the vehicle.  The state, in turn, issues the buyer a 'certifi-
>     cate of title' which shows that a title exists.  The state has both
>     the MSO and actual title to the vehicle, and no matter how many 
>     times the vehicle changes hands, the state still owns it.  
>Since the state owns the vehicles, cannot they prescribe the terms for
>     us to drive THEIR vehicles?  Yes they can, and do.  If you read 
>     your state, county, city 'laws' on vehicles - drivers, you will see
>     that they CAN prescribe safety regulations, such as stop lights,
>     signs, speeds, etc., but you wont find laws which violate your 
>     right to free locomotion; at least there weren't any for this city-
>     state.  Here they just walk on one's rights, since we have no place
>     to register complaints (courts).
>If you can get the MSO at the time of purchase of a vehicle, I don't 
>     think the state can require you to have a drivers license to oper-
>     ate a vehicle within the state.  You must remember, however, that
>     if you already have a drivers license, the state will ASSUME that
>     you have given permission, through this license, to the state to
>     control you and your vehicle.  When I decided to drop out of the
>     system, I cut my driver's license in two pieces, sent it back to
>     the state with a note stating that I was no longer a state sponser-
>     ed driver, and that I no longer needed a chauffer's license.  I
>     drove for over seven years without a license.  It is a hassle, but
>     if it is worth that hassle for you to be free, then it is your de-
>     cision.  While I never had any problem with the license issue it-
>     self, the associated problems, such as identification, puts a 
>     strain on the person.  Anyway, it is all fraud, since the state 
>     puts the 'mandatory' sign on everything, and this thing between you
>     and state falls within the realm of contract, and contract is an
>     entirely different category.  Hope this helps some.
>				    Ray Earnest
>-> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
>->  Posted by: Ray Earnest <cen11156@mail.ld.centuryinter.net>

Paul Andrew Mitchell, Sui Juris      : Counselor at Law, federal witness 01
B.A.: Political Science, UCLA;   M.S.: Public Administration, U.C.Irvine 02
tel:     (520) 320-1514: machine; fax: (520) 320-1256: 24-hour/day-night 03
email:   [address in tool bar]       : using Eudora Pro 3.0.3 on 586 CPU 04
website: http://supremelaw.com       : visit the Supreme Law Library now 05
ship to: c/o 2509 N. Campbell, #1776 : this is free speech,  at its best 06
             Tucson, Arizona state   : state zone,  not the federal zone 07
             Postal Zone 85719/tdc   : USPS delays first class  w/o this 08
_____________________________________: Law is authority in written words 09
As agents of the Most High, we came here to establish justice.  We shall 10
not leave, until our mission is accomplished and justice reigns eternal. 11
======================================================================== 12
[This text formatted on-screen in Courier 11, non-proportional spacing.] 13


Return to Table of Contents for

Supreme Law School:   E-mail