Posted by continued on September 08, 1998 at 07:41:06:
In Reply to: Re: An old tax forum, here you will find a lot of what you are looking for. posted by continued on September 08, 1998 at 07:38:26:
From: Friend
Date: 17-Sep-97
A 1991 6209 would be applicable to assessments 1991 through 1993 etc...
Certificate of officer authorized by law to take acknowledgments is not
essential to the validity of Notice of Federal Tax Lien Rev. Rul 71-466,
1971 -2C.B. 409) I will look this up in the rulings book and get back to
you as to what they are saying, more likely than not they are talking about
the local recorder, but then again the aforementioned statement is kinda
sketchy.
Hey denny-dimwitt,
if you read my last posting ,“Proof of Claim” would be what the judge would
order the IRS to sign verifying the type of tax owed, it says right on the
proof of claim in a neat little blank box “TYPE OF TAX” the IRS has to fill
in this box and then sign the form, which they are not likely to do, so
subsequently every thing they throw at you thereafter is moot, because they
did not respond to the prior judgment. end of story.
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From: hyjack
Date: 16-Sep-97
ONCE AGAIN, Bottom of form 668 (Y) it says, "(Note: Certificate of officer
authorized by law to take acknowledgemnts is not essential to the validity
of Notice of Federal Tax Lien Rev. Rul 71-466, 1971 -2C.B. 409) I
understand what a Rev. Rul. is however if anyone has info on this particul
ruling I would appreciate you sharing that. Also who is the officer by law
to acknowledgemnts. Is that the agent or the county recorder? Any info
along this line would be appreciated.
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From:
Date: 16-Sep-97
Dear Friend, I have a 1991 and a 1994 6209 manual. My question would be,
"for what years (IMF, AIMS) would the two different manuals be applicable."
This is for making a legal argument. Thanks
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Subject: RE: Notices (lien, levy, etc.)
From: denny-dimwitt
Date: 15-Sep-97
I do not know who to address this to, as several taxpayers responded to
denny's email. We will address this to Mr. Hyjack as he was the one who was
seeking answers. Yes Mr. Hyjack, I have notices of lien filed against me
and have had notices of levy filed against me. Do you want excerpts from my
9 month long correspondence? The lien and levy is a tough nugget, however I
have minimized the damages simply by demonstrating to the levy recipient,
(third party such as bank, etc.) the misapplied nature of the levy, by
showing them 26 USC sec 6331(a) and reminding them that it is my property
they intend to give to a stranger with out a court order. (my losses to
date =0.00.)
I have recently heard Amway put IRS on notice they would no longer honor
their levies. I have no proof of this. If anyone out there knows any info
on this, lets hear about it, good or bad.
The lien is something else. I know of no one who has been successful in
getting the county to remove it, including my own. The best way to deal
with this situation to neutralize the damage of this misapplied document is
to file an affidavit of rebuttal with the county recorders office. You
definitely need your IMF and NMF (non-masterfile) to prove the fraud and
misapplied tax laws. Also send certified copy of this to the three (3)
major credit reporting agencies, green carded. Provide a cover letter for
this reminding them they may be liable for damages if they fail to provide
a copy of your rebuttal (affidavit) along with any lien or levy information
they supply to an inquiry about you. REMEMBER; YOUR AFFIDAVIT WINS EVERY
TIME OVER UNSUBSTANTIATED NOTICE OF LIEN or LEVY! (the IRS has forms
available to them to prove their position but they won't use them.There are
at least two of them. They are called "Proof of Claim" (one is form # 4490
used for "Internal Revenue taxes" and form # 4491-A and form #6338 used for
Bankruptcy cases. I wonder if the reason they won't use these is because
they require a signature under penalty of perjury???? Yes, Mr.. IRS, a
sworn statement.
You have to be sure of your position with documents, so get your files from
the disclosure officer, (FOIA) and have them decoded. The best way is to
learn to decode it yourself. d. d.
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From: Friend
Date: 15-Sep-97
So many angry people, so little time.
I have never been arrested and rather doubt that I ever will be.
6209 is revised every 3 years, (the IRS has to keep up with current affairs
just like everyone else).
Once again there is no one way to do any of this, not withstanding your
final solution is not found within the district offices of the IRS, but
with the Commissioner of Internal Revenue. once you have done everything
you can administratively, you need to appeal to the Commissioner for a
change of records.
Since you should have your AMDISA file now, where upon will be found your
activity code (interpreted in 6209), which most likely does not match your
real activity (which is probably just drinking to much beer and wearing out
the remote). The IRS can not justify It’s position with regard to your
incorrect records, therefore make a statement to that effect as an appeal
to the Commissioner to correct your records.
If you do not get a satisfactory response, hire a good lawyer (IM not
kidding) if you are not a dynamo in court, forget defending yourself
PRO-SE, you wont get any respect. The lawyer is an officer of the court,
enough said. All you have to do is get the lawyer to do what you want his
way. what you want is to get the judge to endorse whatever order you’ve
brought in (mandamus etc..) which compels the IRS to tell you what tax you
are really supposed to be liable for. What judge is going to deny you that,
your in court with a lawyer and he just basically states your case based on
the facts.
My client your honor is a good hard working man who wants to pay all the
taxes he is required to pay by law, however the IRS has made an error in
his/her records with regard to the type of tax owed, and subsequently has
assessed penalties and filed liens against my client causing great distress
and hardship, repeated attempts have been made by Mr./Ms so and so to
correct this situation at the administrative level, but no correction has
been made. (you should have a nice neat big pile of documents
substantiating your position) Your honor we respectfully request that you
blah blah blah sign mandamus compelling the IRS to correct the
aforementioned records and indicate the correct tax owed so that Mr./ Ms so
and so can pay his/her tax blah blah blah
If you do the Title 18 thing with the mail, the IRS is just going to stick
it into the TC148 box (making you a tax protester, giving them several more
statute years to hassle you) and consider your response as legal notice on
their part. They are not going to argue law with you, the way they play it
is this.
1. You pay what they say you owe up front .
2. You file for a refund.
3. Your attorney and their attorney fight over the amount in tax court.
4. You get something back but your attorney keeps it and sends you a bill
for the rest.
Standard procedure
Remember, they didn’t start this, you did!
I am a really busy guy and I do not need to justify anything I have posted
here, I have received no compensation for my advise. I was just trying to
help out. Isn’t that what friends are for?
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From:
Date: 14-Sep-97
What is your current situation DennY and what is yor strategy. PS Where is
the FRIEND when we need him?
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From:
Date: 14-Sep-97
Dear Denny, good to hear from a man fighting the good fight.Have you
experienced lien, levies, and other harrassments. It usually takes two
years for the right hand to catch up with the left.
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From:
Date: 14-Sep-97
WHERE IS THE "FRIEND"? Is he in jail or is he afraid<
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From:
Date: 14-Sep-97
Dear FRIEnd. Did you puss out on us? This si my season. I have allmy ducks
lined up. I have the winter off and it is time ti get iton. 6209 and fraud.
administrative mistakes, due process and etc. However my best strategy is
with jurisdiction and cerrification of liens Fought on county grounds. WHY?
Because the agency knows that the Fed. courts will back them up,Frivolous
suit, tipical; tax protester arguments. We all talk big about our FED SUITS
but who gets one to get one through and who ever gets a chance to win one?
The district director says to the agent not worry because the justioce
dept. is behind him. Money no object! And then you have the courts. (NEED I
SAY MORE) IT HAS GOT TO BE A LOCAL FIGHT WITH EDUCATION AND, LAWSUITS, AND
RUNNING PROTECTIVE CANDIDATES. IF SOMEBODY STARTEED SHOOTING FED OFFICIALS
THAT WOULDN'T BOUTHER ME EITHER.
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From:
Date: 14-Sep-97
thanks for the rep[ly Denny. We have a guy named "friend" who answers all
interogitories but he gets pissy once in awhile. He will start writing and
then it is worth while to pay attention! Where are you "FRIEND" when we
need you.
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From: denny-dimwitt
Date: 13-Sep-97
Excuse the first email with no message. I'm new to the net, so I'll be a
little slow and dimwitted til I get the hang of it. In reference to Mr.
Hyjack's ??s of 9-11-97. 1994 is the most recent 6209 document. Regarding
the acknowlegement portion of a 669y lien I have a little experience with
this important issue. Do you want me to send along a portion of the 9 month
long correspondence with the county officials. I will tell you now they did
nothing with the facts I presented. However they left themselves wide open
by their silence (US vTweel states, silence can only be equated with fraud,
where there is a duty and responsibility to answer. (irs case) Perhaps it
will help Mr. Hyjack
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From: denny-dimwitt
Date: 13-Sep-97
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From: hyjack
Date: 11-Sep-97
Dear "Friend" or anyone else that might know. On the very bottom of Form
668 (Y) Notice of Federal Tax LIen it says, (NOTE: Certificate of officer
authorizeed by law to take aknowledgements is not essential to the validity
of Notice of Federal tax lien Rev. Rul. 71-466, 1971 -2C.B. 409. Who is the
"officer" and what does Rev. Rul. 71- 486 mean? Does a Rev. Rul. have the
weight of law? Also one other question concerning the 6209. Is ther a new
edition printed for every year. I recieved my 1994 edition and was told
this is the latest edition available. Thanks for any info.
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From: hyjack
Date: 11-Sep-97
Dear "Friend" or anyone else that might know. On the very bottom of Form
668 (Y) Notice of Federal Tax LIen it says, (NOTE: Certificate of officer
authorizeed by law to take aknowledgements is not essential to the validity
of Notice of Federal tax lien Rev. Rul. 71-466, 1971 -2C.B. 409. Who is the
"officer" and what does Rev. Rul. 71- 486 mean? Does a Rev. Rul. have the
weight of law? Also one other question concerning the 6209. Is ther a new
edition printed for every year. I recieved my 1994 edition and was told
this is the latest edition available. Thanks for any info.
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From:
Date: 09-Sep-97
I am going to file suit with the fed crts. The real hope is to fight the
good fight through your county government. We are going to run a candidate
that will take up the issues of jurisdiction and Fed gov. abuse. He
probably won't win but we will see other candidate agree with his premise
and we might get the due protection. How about it FRIEND, how about some
scathing opinion. You oviously are the mentor of this forum, and may I say
"rightfully so". Good mind, good heart and lots of energy. Lets hear from
the "friend", WE MISS YOUR WISDOM. hope to hear fom you, and I do miss your
diatribes and of course your invalualable knowledge.
he probably
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From: boogir man
Date: 07-Sep-97
Dear Me, They are still going to slap a lien on you if they say you OWE.
Big time bogus strategy. Try it and wait two years. BANK ACCOUNT LEVIED AND
NOTICE OF LIEN FILE. fIGHT the IRS on jurisdictional grounds, Get your
county gov. to stand in your way. Educate your local gov as to
jurisdictional rights. Its the way to go. the Fed courts are douplious with
the IRS. Fight it at home. Educate your county elected officials. Every
thing else is bogus. It DON'T WORK.
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Subject: RE: Tax Problems, Cases, & Postal Code
From: Me.
Date: 06-Sep-97
Upon receiving a letter from the IRS, whether it be regular mail or
certified, try this. Mark on it "Return to sender" "Refused in compliance
with Title 18 U.S.C. Sec 1342" "No such entity at this location"
I need not cover all that has gone before in these postings. E-Mail me at:
bloodriver@i-55.com
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From:
Date: 03-Sep-97
Federal PRO SE lawsuits are moot. The Justice dept is in bed with the IRS.
The judges have got to be paid. The IRS controls the judges and keeps
records of their rulings. ou work with your local government, you educate,
you get promises and you ellect. You file state and county suits and you
win caseses at home. Tell me of one case won by a patriot plaintif in Fed
Crt. Lots of noise, no results. HYJACK is right, "WHERES THE BEEF". WHERE
ARE THE VICTORIES, (the successfull pro se law suits) Lots of talk with no
results to brag about. How about it? Any oneout there got a victory to
report on. The best thing that could happen to the movement is for a fellow
to battle it out with the ATF/IRS in a gunfight when they come to steal his
home or car. FIGHT ON THE LOCAL LEVEL,AND CARRY A BIG GUN IN CASE OF
ILLEGAL LEVIES AND LIENS. WE NEED HEROES, MARTYRS AND LEADERS. (and we
still need to hit away at what ever we can). GREAT SITE WITH GOOD PATRIOTIC
PEOPLE!
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From:
Date: 30-Aug-97
Where are you at Friend, Talk to us. Be gentle and kind though. Hyjack
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From: hyjack
Date: 23-Aug-97
After three years of reading everyhting I can and researching as much as i
can I am convincved that the best way to attack the IRS and their liens and
levies is through the local level. A suit against the bank, county
recorder, sherrif goes a long way in educating these people as to the
juridiction limitations of this criminal agency. The IRS which is under
attack from so many entities looses no sleep over patriot lawsuits because
they take forever if they are accepted by the fed courts. Also they realize
you are still operating on their home turf (fed justice system) and the
deck is cut in their favor. This agency monitors fed judges and this
intimidating enough to these black robed imposters. Educate your officials
as to the criminal abuse perpetrated by the IRS. If that fails sue them and
then question, educate and elect new candidates ( those that will stand up
and be counted) to your local gov. Get other patriots together and form a
grassroots org., advertize against and for candidates, meet with these
candidates and get promises that they will obey the law and protect you
from the criminal assaults by this rogue federal agency. We have a sheriff
in a county north of where I live. He will not allow Fed agents of any type
to come into his county. They must come to him first and state their
business. He understands state and county sovereignty. He reports that the
liens and levies have stopped and he has not heard so much as a boo from
these fed crooks. He is educating other sheriffs in this state as to their
responsibility in protecting their constituents against the illegal
intrusions of the Fed Gov. In ending I would say that it would be nice to
see an organized march to Washington by patriots next April 15th.
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From: hyjack
Date: 23-Aug-97
Just got through browsing "Harolds Page". This is a real nice web site with
good info. Check it out. Good to see you are up and about Friend. Check out
my 8/14 post and let me know if you have heard of this. Thanks as always,
Hyjack.
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From: Friend
Date: 22-Aug-97
Which 6209 Sections did they blot out? By the way, AIMS Activity Codes are
found under Section 12-18 this is under the Section heading EXAMINATION /
EMPLOYEE and is part .08. There are other activity code lists in 6209, but
the aforementioned is the one that applies. “Waivet of tort.” no I have not
looked into this, but will look it up.
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From: John In California
Date: 22-Aug-97
Hy jack, just recieved my 6209 from oakland . You need to request it useing
the foia clauses , and send $64.95. I t will be the latest edition the mark
out some section though. I havent finished looking thru it as of yet. Good
luck on yopur endevers. Friend haver you heard anythin about a Waivet of
tort. some people have used it here and stopped tax withholding and court
actions. it States donnot tresspass on me, my rights etc. Will be checking
it out myself and get back to you all.
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From: hyjack
Date: 18-Aug-97
Dear Friend, That Ben Franklin adress might be good for a 6209. Finally
heard from them and they said I could purchase it.Sent the money off (1994
edition) which is latest edition. Have you heard of the strategy to get
lien released 1. Fed Tax Liens must be certified (most state statutes say
so) 2. Fed Tax Liens are almost never certified 3. The county recorder who
has recorded this uncertified lien is breaking the law (state) 4. County
recorder must take it off or open herself up to a suit. I checked my state
statutes out and it is there about Fed Tax Lien must be certified. I looked
up "certify" in Blacks and I still do not quite underestand exactly what
certification of a lien would mean. How about some imput on this? Hyjack
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From: Friend
Date: 14-Aug-97
From: John in California <-- (click
here to mail, if a proper E-mail Date: 14-Aug-97
Freind or anyone else, I called the ssa to find out what section of the
codes if any that made it manditory to obtain a ss#. She gave me a code
section 1955, but I havent been able to locate what title or reg any on
have this information?
(Answer)
There is no 1955 in title 42 or 26, she was just jerkin your chain. If you
send a nice letter asking whether or not a Private Citizen is required to
have an SSA number simply to live and work in the USA, you should get back
an 8 page form letter saying you do not.
From: John in California <-- (click
here to mail, if a proper E-mail Date: 11-Aug-97
Hyjack, did you have to pay the 64.95 for your 6209 manual? I just sent
away to Oakland for a manuel also. Did they send you a complete one? I also
sent for another FOIA request for all the evidence they (IRS) have that
states I have a tax liablity, If I am a government employee,If I am subject
to the Buck Act, If I am employed by the State and etc. I am requesting all
the evidence, if they dont have any where is their authority. This will be
just another document I will have when they (IRS) try an get me in
court,almost inevitable they will.
(Answer)<
The Disclosure Office will not respond to interrogatories (questions) they
will only fetch stuff they can look up directly, like an SSA Number. You
can say, here rover, see this stick? Go fetch this stick, no problem. But
if you say, here rover, see this lake? on the bottom of this lake is a
stick, go fetch the stick. Get the point. The most that you will get back
is some kind of general form letter. However you might be able to submit a
similar request as an appeal directly to the commissioner, after you have
been denied something by way of a privacy request for know documents.
From: hyjack <-- (click here to
mail, if a proper E-mail Date: 08-Aug-97
Dear Freind, Got a zeroxed copy of the 6209 today. Can't wait to get
started researching my IMF with it. Have you got any tips on how to use
this manual? Thanks
Yeah I do
Get a lot of book marks.
The index really isnt all that bad, look up Activity Codes and DLN,s first,
from there, just look up the stuff on you AIMS sheet, be patient
From: John in California <-- (click
here to mail, if a proper E-mail Date: 07-Aug-97
Has anyone been able to stop their employer from withholding taxes from
their pay checks? or is it a battle in furtility? also has any one been
able to get the irs off the back without going to court? I would appreciate
any info on this
(Answer) To be perfectly honest I am preparing for court for another guy
right now , The basis is that the IRS has refused to answer any of his
questions with regard to what tax, he is being held liable. Further his
AIMS records are not in harmony with their demands, wherefore they have
acquiesced, so we are motioning for estopel on the levy and dissmisal on
the rest- look up Rule 12B (Rules of civil procedure).
GIVE THE FOLLOWING INFO TO THE EMPLOYER.
.........................Third Party Checklist for Determining Validity of
IRS Notices of Levy.
Do not proceed beyond each step unless the answer to each question is YES.
If the answer to any question is NO, the levy is not legally valid and is
therefore NOT LEGALLY BINDING, and carries no force of law behind it.
Inform the IRS that you, as an employer, are unable to honor the levy until
all of the LEGAL REQUIREMENTS have been met and are satisfied.
1. Is there a copy of the Court ordered Warrant of Distraint and Notice of
Lien included with the Notice of Levy ?
2. Does the tax that the IRS claims is owed arise from taxable activities
subject to miscellaneous excise taxes under title 26 USC subtitle E or
those that would pertain to the enabling regulations of title 27 CFR Part
70 (alcohol, tobacco and firearms), or are you a federal employer as
defined in section 3401(d) (in one of the U.S. territories and responsible
for administering provisions under 26 USC subtitle C)?
3. Was a valid Notice and Demand for unpaid tax sent to the individual
whose property is the target of the levy ?
4. Has a valid Notice of Lien been filed with the appropriate court at
least 10 days after the Notice and Demand was received and has the Court
issued a warrant of distraint pursuant to IRC section 7403 ?
5. Has the IRS sent at least three notices to the individual asking for
payment and has the individual refused to pay ?
6. Has the IRS sent a Notice of Intent to Levy to the individual at least
30 days prior to the date on the Notice of Levy you received ?
7. Is the Notice of Levy signed by an IRS agent and is there a delegation
order in existence giving that particular agent the authority to issue
Notice of Levy ?
If all of the above conditions have been satisfied, the levy could be
valid. However, if you turn over property in response to an improper levy,
the individual who owns the property can sue you personally for punitive as
well as actual damages- IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS A FIDUCIARY TO INSURE
THAT ALL LEGAL REQUIREMENTS ARE MET.
26 CFR 301.6332-1c
Any person who mistakenly surrenders to the United States property or
rights to property not subject to levy is not relieved from liability to a
third party who owns the property. The owners of mistakenly surrendered
property may, however, secure from the United States the administrative
relief provided for in section 6343(b) or may bring suit to recover the
property under section 7426.
LETS FOLLOW THE HAPPY TRAIL
When the IRS sends a notice of Levy 26 USC §6331, (unless it is legitimate)
it always comes by way of regular mail, therefore there is no proof that
anyone actualy receved it. It says right in the paperwork that the levy
actualy begins the moment they receve a responce back from whomever they
sent it to.
So!
1- They have no proof that it was ever sent
2- If no one resonds to their junk mail, no levy!
If you want to wake up the employer to the truth, simply show him/her the
page inclued with the notice marked “Levy and Disraint “ the page starts
with paragraph “B” not “A”, now why would that be? Well lets just read
paragraph “A”
26 USC section 6331. Levy and distraint
(a) Authority of Secretary
"If any person liable to pay any tax neglects or refuses to pay the same
within 10 days after notice and demand, it shall be lawful for the
Secretary to collect such tax" "LEVY MAY BE MADE UPON the accrued salary or
wages of any OFFICER, EMPLOYEE, or ELECTED OFFICIAL, of the United States,
the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of the United
States or the District of Columbia , by serving a notice of levy on the
employer (as defined in section 3401(d) of such officer, employee, or
elected official."
“ by serving a notice of levy on the employer (as defined in section
3401(d)”
26 USC 3401(d) Employer
"for the purposes of this chapter, the term "employer" means the person for
whom an individual performs or performed any service, of whatever nature,
as the employee of such person,"
26USC 3401(c) Employee.
For the purpose of this chapter (24), the term "employee" an officer,
employee, or elected official of the United States, a state, or any
political subdivision thereof, or the District of Columbia or any agency or
instrumentality of any of the foregoing. The term "employee" also includes
an officer of a corporation. (Emphasis added).
26 USC§ 6205. Special rules applicable to certain employment taxes
(a) Adjustment of tax
(1) General rule
If less than the correct amount of tax imposed by section 3101, 3111, 3201,
3221, or 3402 is paid with respect to any payment of wages or compensation,
proper adjustments, with respect to both the tax and the amount to be
deducted, shall be made, without interest, in such manner and at such times
as the Secretary may by regulations prescribe.
(§3402 IS COLLECTION OF INCOME TAX AT SOURCE)
(2) United States as employer
For purposes of this subsection, in the case of remuneration received from
the United States or a wholly-owned instrumentality thereof during any
calendar year, each head of a Federal agency or instrumentality who makes a
return pursuant to section 3122 and each agent, designated by the head of a
Federal agency or instrumentality, who makes a return pursuant to such
section shall be deemed a separate employer.
(3) Guam or American Samoa as employer
For purposes of this subsection, in the case of remuneration received
during any calendar year from the Government of Guam, the Government of
American Samoa, a political subdivision of either, or any instrumentality
of any one or more of the foregoing which is wholly owned thereby, the
Governor of Guam, the Governor of American Samoa, and each agent designated
by either who makes a return pursuant to section 3125 shall be deemed a
separate employer.
(4) District of Columbia as employer
For purposes of this subsection, in the case of remuneration received
during any calendar year from the District of Columbia or any
instrumentality which is wholly owned thereby, the Mayor of the District of
Columbia and each agent designated by him who makes a return pursuant to
section 3125 shall be deemed a separate employer.
(5) States and political subdivisions as employer
For purposes of this subsection, in the case of remuneration received from
a State or any political subdivision thereof (or any instrumentality of any
one or more of the foregoing which is wholly owned thereby) during any
calendar year, each head of an agency or instrumentality, and each agent
designated by either, who makes a return pursuant to section 3125 shall be
deemed a separate employer
Remember most all of this stuff relates directly to BATF!
COLLECTION OF INCOME TAX AT SOURCE ON WAGES
26 CFR Section 31.3401(c)-1 Def. Employee
(a) The term employee includes every individual performing services if the
relationship between him and the person for whom he performs such services
is the legal relationship of employer and employee. The term includes
officers and employees, WHETHER ELECTED or APPOINTED, of the united states,
a state, Territory, puerto Rico, or any political subdivision thereof, or
the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of any one or
more of the foregoing
27 CFR part 70.161 (4) Certain types of compensation.-(1)
the term "employer" means:
(a) The officer or employee of the United States, the District of Columbia,
or of the agency or instr